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Hari Bol All! - Just found this today - go to the Manor's website: www.krishnatemple.com and on the right side click on daily darshan - darshan of everyday from the end of January, including he appearance days of Garua nad Nitai - I must admit, the rigid conditions in the deity room certainly pay off! - Their Lordships look amazing!
(Tell me, in temples that you work in, does your head pujari stand behind you and direct all proceedings as you get Their Lordships dressed in the morning?)
Hari Bol!
Krish.
(Tell me, in temples that you work in, does your head pujari stand behind you and direct all proceedings as you get Their Lordships dressed in the morning?)
Hari Bol!
Krish.
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Sat, April 1, 2006 - 12:17 PMJai ho!!
Hare krsna prabhu..
Their Lordships do look amazing..
Nope, here in Pune, the head pujari dosent direct the dressing.. theres just an unsaid standard though, that evryone follows..
ur servant
arun
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Sun, April 2, 2006 - 7:32 AMDear Krish prabhu,
All I have to say is...... JAI!! Amazing photos of the deities...thanks again and again...
I don't think the Boston head pujari directs everyone's deity dressing... everyone has their own style/variations and since they aren't outrageous, they are permitted...and the styles can be quite different too... so it's healthy variation, and a change for the deities too... :)
Like anything, there's plus and minus points to any approach right?
your servant,
Krishna
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Sun, April 2, 2006 - 7:35 AMOooo...forgot one thing...I heard from a devotee at the Chowpatty temple that there is usually one pujari who checks to see if all the deities look ok, and makes suggestions/adjustments before the curtains open for greeting the deities. This position is rotated among all the pujaris, as is the dasanudas position (a runner brahmachari that gets various paraphrenalia as the pujaris dressing the deities require for last minute additions, etc)... so not necessarily the head pujari directing the final look of the deities each day... seems quite democratic eh?
your servant,
Krishna -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Sun, April 2, 2006 - 8:51 AMhave I opened a proverbial can of worms?!
Hari Bol!
Radha Gokulananda's schedule is very strict - to the second infact, and the head pujari directs this well - nothing is ever late, always ontime, the schedule is very rigid, and the standard reflects this.
Our wonderful headpujari directs the dressing, so it always looks the same, but yes, good points to both approaches! - I don't know about the runners, as I don't have the fortune of getting behind those gates - still I cling to them whenever I get darshan, how one day I'd love to be on the other side, opening them for all the devotees to take darshan of Their Lordships to the fullest extent!!
Hari Bol! -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Sun, April 2, 2006 - 9:26 PMi have never had someone stand behind me and telling me how to dress. well it has happened in new vrndavana when i was dressing there, under a very rigid indian pujari. who was very controlling and liked to ckeck everything i did. and always said "do it nicely" however he was always pleased with my dressing. i found it sorta cute that he felt the need to be so angst ridden. i display my devotion in a different manner. ppl have to relax.
i think that it crosses certain boundaries however and can be very stifling if this is the case at the manor. it makes one wonder, is the standard the goal? is it that the offering be on time? or is it the love with which it is prepared? or is it the bhakti that the pujari has dressed with? the more deity worship i do, i find the more understanding i become (not to be misunderstood as a lax standard). i have seen very beautiful standards of worship and at the same time, the pujari encouraged to express his/her particular offering/ dressing with their own personal flair. i think that is healthy.
although i am quite personally strict i have learned to not project this onto others as it repells them rather than attracts them to devotional service. -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Mon, April 3, 2006 - 3:19 AMHaribol!!
First of all.. i expected a reply of this kind from manu prabhu.. the ever rebelling pujari!! ;) :D :D (kidding..) but, yea.. i totally agree about the not projecting ur strictness on others thing.. it does put people off..
But then again, i also think theres the need of a standby pujari to be there during dressing to direct the dressing (in case a new pujari is doing it.. so that suggestions can be made on various things.. ) i knw thats how the case is here in case theres a new dresser.. some senior pujari guides him thru how to tie the turbans and where all the different kinds of turban pieces are available etc.. also, there is need for a standby pujari to make sure everything is in order.. coz, simetimes the pujaris are soo rushed by the time its 7.15 that theres a pin cushion on the altar.. (or in the case of night dressing, the smaller deities dont have peacock feathers..)
In any case, theres no reason that a pujari should exert his dressing style on other pujaris.. theres a difference between directing and interference.. even krsna sometimes directs but never interferes with our free will to serve/not to serve him..
ur das
arun -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Mon, April 3, 2006 - 6:52 AMHari Bol! - manu, always horizontal as ever, I love it! but the mood, in the Manor is for continuity, always what their Lordships are used to - a continuity that Prabhupada stipulated especially for the larger temples ('regularity must always be there' - it the quote, I'm sure) And the mood of bhakti is there, and it is reflected by the fact that all the Pujaris are a wonderfully close knit team, that are always anxious to please Radha Gokulananda - The apparant rigidness is a byproduct of a well oiled team. All Pujaris are certainly long established and expert in their service - ie. Mother Kulangana making mangala arati sweets daily since the 1980s (though there are a lot of young devotees also being engaged) Their Lordships must be pleased - otherwise why would the preaching effort be going so well?
again, I still find it wonderful, how many different moods exist in arcana, and am very interested to learn what they are - all have their good and bad points! - better to concentrate and develop the good, and lose the bad along the way.
Ys.
Krish. -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Mon, April 3, 2006 - 12:20 PMHaribol!!
I was thinking about the opulent worship at the Manor temple. Just seeing the preps spread out for the bhoga offering on Nityananda Trayodasi made me feel exhausted...with all the pujaris scurrying about the altar behind the closed curtains... breath-taking effort...
It is to be applauded. If I'm not mistaken, Srila Prabhupada wanted people to visit and do service for the temple deities, so that a standard that could not be achieved individually at home, could be acheived for the deities, for Their pleasure, and the eternal benefit of the devotees and the entire community's residents. I think the Manor temple (which I hope to visit someday soon) has acheived this to a remarkable degree...
Yes, rigidity is always a danger from a "well oiled team" but if there are new-comers who are being shown the ropes, questions will arise and traditions may change with time... but the rule is, "If it's good, keep it!"
Thanks again Krish prabhu for the pictures...
your servant,
Krishna
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Wed, April 5, 2006 - 12:55 PMkrishna this is a very nice attitude and sentence that u have finished with. that questions will arise and traditions may change with time, but if its good keep it. actually this reflects prabhupadas mood, which was quite progressive. and arun i think ur last sentence was most a-propos. krsna directs but never interferes. how very true.
and respectfully i believe that a well-oiled team doesnt necessarily mean rigid. and krish i meant no offense to the maoor devotees/pujaris:) i have no doubt that the standard is tremendous!
montreal was the 3rd temple in iskcons history and i have had the good fortune of being trained by some pujaris who were trained by prabhupada in dresssing and i am happy that their mood is one of accepting someones offering of dressing. actually recently an incident happened that a newer pujari (even though she is older age-wise than the prabhupada disciple) started to regularly changing the dressing style of what that devotee did as her morning dressing. and let me tell u, it was not well taken. this devotee who has been dressing for 30 years comes to greet the deities and see that her turban has changed and different jewels on radharani etc. when this devotee told me of this offense she told me about the old days and the mood of service on the altar and how she was trained and that never would prabhupada have approved of such a thing.
the point is, prabhupadas early disciples who were expert in deity worship- yamuna, shilavati, jyotiraditya all have the mood he gave them, one that promotes personal flare and style in regards to deity dressing, and, in such a way, create variety, diversity and pleasure for the lords transcendental senses.
on another note for everyones info, usually new pujaris do not dress, when u 1st get brahmana u start with aratis and waking/putting the lord to rest. dressing comes later. at least this is how i was trained.
hare krsna. -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Thu, April 6, 2006 - 2:07 AMhere. one starts with polishing 1st - then the others! - how wonderful! :) -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Manor Darshan!
Thu, April 6, 2006 - 3:43 PMChanging the dressing??
Scaaaaarrryyyy...
the only alteration in dressing ive seen through the day has been the change of flowers in turbans.. (and that too on festival days.. by the head pujari..)
manu prabhu.. pls tell us some prabhupada and deity dressing pastimes if u can remember..
hope ram navmi was ecstatic
ur das
arun -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Fri, April 7, 2006 - 12:26 AMI have the fortune "and the headake" ji ji to be head pujari many times,and when i have this position i never contorl doing the dressing what athers pujaris hwere doing and the end before open the coutians evrybody have a look seing if evruthing was ready and i sometimes made some sugestions . I always thoug tath i made do not like something but wo i am to thing that The Lords do not liked the same with the jewls i made do not like some jewls but the ather pujari yes and with them he made the Deitys look gourgous so...
For sure if some bdy do a crazy thing like dressing The Lord like a Disney doll or painting them like a carnaval i will said it but atherways if things folow S Prabhupada standar wy changing and wy put the devotees nerveus by controling them . No that i thing tha are doing wrong in England is diferent aprochs to serve The Lord
I do not like personally to go and see the Deitys and have them evriday looking the same, like SPabhupada just to cuote varaity is the ...
So all Glrories to all the Pjaris of The Lord and to all the devotees we are so few lets apreciate each ather mode and service actitude
Yours in service to SPrabhupada and the Vaisnavas
Priya -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Fri, April 7, 2006 - 6:53 AMHaribol!!
Jai to Priya mataji for her awesome attitude. I think not enough devotees encourage each other, what to say of controlling others on the altar... I think the deities should look a bit different each day, not drastically, but a little bit... a different way of putting necklaces, a slightly new style garland, a different arrangement of peacock feathers, a slightly different turban etc... A lot of pujaris get into a rut, and dress the deities the same way, so if you know the outfit for the day, you pretty much know how Their Lordships look even before the curtains open...
I'm no where near being a pujari, or on the altar or anything like that... but my service is making garlands, and each week I make them differently. Even Gaura Nitai get different ones (with color inversion, so the garlands are the same style but contrast colors)... a lot of people loved the garlands I made, and told me so, so I know people noticed and appreciated the small change every now and then, and I didn't offend anyone (I know of at least!). The rest of the week, the garlands are the exact same from day to day, and I think even the deities would get bored of it (come to think of it, the flowers, water and bhoga are the only "new" things offered daily to the deities, so why not keep them "new"?)
Sorry if I offended anyones sentiments... just threw in my two paisa into the hat here...
your servant,
Krishna
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Fri, April 7, 2006 - 8:19 AMHari Hari!
Priya Mataji, I like the idea in your temple that you take it in turns to be 'head pujari' - although in this sense there really isn't one! it reminds me very much of the Radha Ramana system of worship, one that Prabhupada appreciated a lot.
I do like hearing all these attitudes - it is certainly healthy to express one's feelings in a group such as this, and I wish (even though this is foolishly late of me - so please forgive me for his too) to beg forgiveness for what may have been taken as my harsh statements in this discussion. Over the last couple of days, it has been very hard to get the time at work to sit down and write a proper reply, but I will try to now - Krishna I certainly agree that the only new things the deities are offered are what you mention, so we should do our best to keep it always exciting for them ( I know I love trying new things with our deities at home). Also as many of you have stated it is a wonderful way for different moods to be expressed by the pujaris, different expressions of bhakti, and also the expression of one's realisation. Thinking of the Lord's form and meditating on this, as to what would look nice, what one could do to please the Lord by adding a slight different flair to the dressing - is a form of realistion that should be cherished and encouraged, not stunted - This is how we develop in our Krishna consciousness. This encouragement really is seen from all the different forms of dressing I have seen from recently looking at he Darshan book CD - I hope you have seen it, it truly is wonderful to be taken around the world and see so many wonderful darshans! and I do think a healthy alternative to he 'head pujari' system is that which mother Priya talks of. - much more conducive to the idea that none of us is the master, we are simply trying to serve the real Lord and Master - Krishna. Yet, still, prabhu's please bear with me, when I take darshan of Sri Sri Radha Gokulananda, Sri Sri Sita Rama Laxmana Hanuman and Sri Sri Gaura Nitai, I find it very hard to fault anything that is done (behind the curtains or otherwise) - as each time They melt my heart, Their Lordships seem so pleased, and if They are pleased - so too is this insignificant fault finding servant of the servant.
ys. being reminded of the need to constantly beg forgivness at the Lotus Feet of the vaisnavas,
Krish.
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Fri, April 7, 2006 - 8:37 AMindeed. variety is the spice of life.
it is also service to the devotees to see different dressing when the curtains open in the morning. krsna LOVES to look beautiful and what to speak of variety.
i appreciate mother priyas approach as well to say. who are we to say what krsna will or will not like in the matter of dressing. unless very sloppy (which should never be the case lol) each persons style of dressing can be seen as beautiful and the rasa they have with the lord.
arun ji. what i kno of standards set by srila prabhupada and the nectar of dressing comes from the senior devotees that have been kind enough to share with me. for example krsnas turban should always have fresh flowers. the deities should always have fresh flowers, they prefer it to jewelry. they can have necklaces of scented jasmine, roses, marigolds, tulasi garlands. and that the garlands should always match the outfits the deities are wearing. prabhupada also wanted the use of pins to be expert, too many makes them look like puppets. an expert pujari will use the right amount and it will hold perfectly. as much as possible u should try and always face the deities when dressing them. never brush the wigs, oil them. be careful to never cover the eyes of the deities with the pagari (turbans). also that the necklaces and beads match perfectly the outfit. that is high class not just cheap plastic pearls.
this is some of the nectar that prabhupada personally taught ramabhadra dasa, jyotiraditya dasi and sarada dasi that has been passed down to us. thanx to my wife satarupa dasi for some of the above memories that i had fogotten.
haribol
ur dasa
manu
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Fri, April 7, 2006 - 10:03 AMHare Krishna,
I dress at Kalachandji Dhama in we have no head pujari standing behind you directing you. Unless it is your first time and you are being trained.
Haribol
Your servant,
Nityananda Ram Das -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Sat, April 8, 2006 - 3:24 AMWhat beutifull realizacions is so nice to share with devotees abaut serving the Lord .Manu Prabhuji is eny of this matajis ther were you are serving i now thw¡em from france and india .
to all of you for this sharing lets continue serving TheLord and His devotees.Ah Krsna very beutifull way to do gurnalds i also like to do them like that with Goura Nitay having them the ather way around
So all Glries to the devvotees of the Lord like one very nice devotee saids the are so few lets
take nice care of them
Your in sevice
Priya -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Mon, April 10, 2006 - 2:36 AMindeed Mother Priya, lets take care of all the Lord's devotees - as it is only through pleasing the devotees with sincere service can we advance in our Krishna consciousness. We must also remember that serving the arca vigraha form is also a way of serving the devotees - by giving them wonderful darshan, we enliven them in their service to Krishna and attract so many souls to His lotus feet. In offering arati, I was always taught to offer in the mood of doing it on behalf of Guru and assembled vaisnavas - so it's all service, and doing it to please Krishna, we must know He is only pleased when all His devotees are taken proper care of!
Hare Krsna.
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Mon, April 10, 2006 - 9:54 PMharibol mother priya. yes sarada dasi and medhya dasi were both in france in the late 70's and early 80's too. possibly jyotiraditya dasi too! but the 1st 2 for sure. such a small world.
ur dasa
manu -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Wed, April 12, 2006 - 10:17 AMYes i remember very well Medhya plaese you have some email from here i was helping her cooking for the Deitys she is soch nice devotee what abaut hers dhouther?? I will like to have some news from her .
And yes Krsna Prabhu for sure is soch nice service to serve the Deitys and satisfied Them and the devotees to have a beutiful Dharsan. The devotees of the lord love to see the Deitys hapy and by serving them propely we give hapiness to the devotees All glories to your service.
Yours in service
Priya -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Wed, April 12, 2006 - 1:51 PMi see medhya all the time and ill get her email. her daughter is chandra kanti and is all grown up and has a 2 year old son! she is a friend of mine.
medhya devi taught me lots in cooking for the deities. -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Thu, April 13, 2006 - 1:54 AMthanks very much Manu i have many fun memories of Medhya and also of Chandar Kanti she was such cute girl and funny. My gosh how time pass she alredy have a child , but of course when i was there i was from 17 to 23 years and know my dhouther she is also married life my Lord.So i will be very happy to get Medhyas mail and write to her
All glories to the devotees of the Lord
Yours in srvice
Priya
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Sat, April 22, 2006 - 12:27 PMAargh!
I love the deities at the manor, even though I've only ever seen them once
(Krsna looked soo beautiful, he had no top on :D (being summer), and he had a garland of sunflowers and was dressed in pink)
Best darshan ever... -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Wed, May 9, 2007 - 10:56 AMSri Sri RadhaGokulananda ki JAI!!!
I have to admit, I am very lucky to live next to them :) This summer (1st July 2006) I went for a wedding there for a devotee family and remember it was 35degrees and I had to play the dhol for the wedding lol. For a quick rest, i went to have Darshan and all I remember is Krsna in his dhotis, Orange/Black and Orange and white flowered Garland around him. for some reason I like his "Vrindavan summer" style dressings and darshan.
:) the photo might be there in the archives actually. -
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Re: Manor Darshan!
Thu, May 10, 2007 - 12:19 PMHari bol!
yeah, this season is always really special, the Jasmine season! Devotees bring jasmine from their homes to supplement what the Manor produces, we also buy in. The garlands take ages to string, but for the way Gokulananda makes them look it's worth it, and the temple room smells awesome. The garlands are sometimes offered only for the afternoon, it depends on supply, and i think it makes a nice darshan, getting more opulent as the day goes on.
YS,
K.
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